Curse

The Lurch · Aug 17, 2007, 02:11 AM // 02:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dervish Gnome

...so excuse me for thinking that Guild Wars should at least consider alternative armor choices. What was I thinking?

Oh yes...I was considering that Guild Wars is just a game thus this being the whole reason why all the women look stellar when in real life...not all women have flat tummies with a kicking upper and lower attachments that are constantly flaunted.

Oh well! [/INDENT]

Lol, just to start out, I love arguing. No, I'm serious. I will continue supporting my views until the forum moderators close this. Now, onto my argument.

If you dont want to "flaunt your stuff" in RL, dont. Im not saying GW is the cause for women looking stellar, quite the contrary. I dont think the elementalist women are "hot" because I know what they are, pixels. People (not just men, dont forget that) are ALWAYS going to be perverted....how do i say this?...fuller(?) clothing is not going to change this.

And, I'm with you on changing armor, I just think ANet is busy screwing up the game with EotN and GW2, I dont think they have time for rational things like revamping the armor. I WOULD like to see some more female (and male) armor that covers up the body more, looking at skanky clothing gets old...real fast. Especially on pixels.

But the point I was trying to make is that, sadly enough, this wont be changed and I think you should ignore it. Not everyone thinks its degrading to women. Like I said in my old post, the world is degenerating like a warrior with four Illusion mesmers on him. But seriously, it is a game. I think if you dont like it, dont play it. I play GW (on a male assassin btw, not a female, just thought i would throw that out) because i like the gameplay and the strategy involved, not to oogle at pixels.

Onarik Amrak · Aug 17, 2007, 02:19 AM // 02:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dervish Gnome

jhu,

Clearly the box is set for "T", but I was able to purchase Fable set at "M" at the age of 16 so in conclusion I would have to say that Wal*Mart or any other game sellers are going to make a sell and sometimes not check for ID (or even check the box for rating). So who is to say that an older looking pre-teen wouldn't be able to purchase the latest Guild Wars game using their birthday money or christmas cash?

M is 15+ to the best of my recollection. (Might be different where you live.)

Anyway, my opinion is: MEH!

Besides it's all Adam and Eve's fault we're wearing clothes at all. Supposedly.

MithranArkanere · Aug 17, 2007, 02:20 AM // 02:20

I know many women that play games.

They almost always choose the eye-catching and elegant armor rather than the strong looking armor.

I smell more 'fake morals' that anything else in this thread.
Are you going to assault all the museuns and throw black paint in all pictures showing female bodies?
Or breaking all statues featurin nudity?

In my country children start going to museums from elementary school, and no one complaints about them looking 'marble boobies'.

Armors in GW are, avobe everything else, ART. Art created by conceptual artists.

moonmonday · Aug 17, 2007, 02:47 AM // 02:47

My opinion is, it should be equal-opportunity exploitation or none at all. I'm glad that the Paragon is a rather nice piece of fanservice to us who like to look at pretty guys in pretty armour, but at the same time it is indeed ridiculous that so much female armour shows so much skin. The reason I haven't made a female Elementalist is because so much of their armour isn't armour at all, and personally I don't really feel the desire to look at some woman with green hair traipsing around in scarcely more than beach togs.

I wouldn't mind it so much if the male armour wasn't so all-covering. Most professions, the male armours cover everything from head to toe and leave everything to the imagination. How is that fair? Women and gay and bisexual men play this game too, y'know. I'm a little tired of game developers assuming that the only audience is straight heterosexual sex-crazed males...that's pretty insulting to heterosexual males, but really insulting too for the rest of us!

Honestly, this isn't really a question of art. Yes, artists did design the armours, artists did do the concept art for the game and such, but this is a question of knowing your audience and appealing properly to said audience. They're currently only giving a concerted effort to appeal to the usual horny straight teenage male demographic, and the rest of the world can go jump in the lake. That isn't uncommon with game developers, but it is unwise with MMORPG developers since they tend to get a more diverse audience and playerbase. So this isn't about art...it's about catering to your audience and not objectifying a large percentage of your players who don't want to be objectified...or at least making it equal-opportunity skin.

It's just funny to me how one of the ultimate Mesmer armours, for example, is a negligee for the females, but a full suit for the males. Why aren't we seeing an armour with the males running around in silk boxer shorts and sandals, hmm? It's only fair.

Dervish Gnome · Aug 17, 2007, 02:58 AM // 02:58

The Lurch,

Well, we have our love of arguing in common and we at least agree that changing armor wouldn't be a bad thing. I'm with you on ANET screwing things up, but I look forward to GW2.

I still won't give up hope of there ever being actual armor that will be exactly as it should be...armor...armor that looks like it can protect a person better than a piece of pretty cloth.

MithranArkanere,

Armor that covers can be eye-catching and elegant. I'll give you that creating armor is a type of art, but I didn't see Monalisa sporting a bikini.

The Lurch · Aug 17, 2007, 03:05 AM // 03:05

Yes, someone who enjoys arguing as much as me...awesome...

But like I said, its not only the female armor that is not actual armor. My armor for example, is 15k Luxon. Very nice, but in RL my assassin would look as though he just went through a paper shredder after a real fight. im thinking EotN will put more covering armors out...primarly because its cold up north?

And Moonmonday is kinda right...i kinda agree with her...there ARE females/gays/bisexuals/whaterver in the game, and some armors should appeal to them.

And I will play GW2 with ya, Gnome, but I still think ANet is screwing the game up.

TheLordOfBlah · Aug 17, 2007, 03:08 AM // 03:08

What I'm hearing from you is both:

I'm not saying 'its too revealing so change all the armor', i just want variety...

and then

But there are 10 year olds playing the game :0

What are you getting at? do you think its too revealing or not? because currently theres nothing visually inappropriate, otherwise this game wouldnt be rated T.

moonmonday · Aug 17, 2007, 03:17 AM // 03:17

I think a visual appeal is very important, and I don't think it's necessary that the armour look like it could actually hold up in a fight (although in many cases, the characters' intrinsic abilities can explain some modicum of this away); however, there is a large gulf between male and female armour sets, and it's as simple as that.

My two cents is: I don't care about 10 year olds playing, as if they're playing a Teen-rated game then they're doing so with the implicit approval of their parents (and if not, then it's their parents' faults for not paying more attention anyway); we shouldn't have to cater to them or be concerned about them, as adult gamers ourselves.

I do like variety too. I'm very glad to see, finally, a DRESS-like outfit for female Necromancers in Nightfall, which I am currently working to get, and I was also glad to see that the male equivalent was very dandy and fine. But there overall hasn't been enough flash from male armours, and I mean that both in terms of colour and in terms of showing skin. I like pretty and visual. Guys that like to look at pretty female characters shouldn't be the only ones who get any joy in this game.

Taurucis · Aug 17, 2007, 03:25 AM // 03:25

I have never met anyone before who shares the views on female armor. You're the first, Dervish Gnome.

It is quite sickening, the female Elementalist armor becoming skimpier and skimpier as the chapters progress.

IMO it's stupid perverted teenage males that ruin the game for everyone. If you can't contain yourself, then log off and do what you need to do. What you're doing to that poor Mesmer over there is making everyone in a 5000 mile radius more stupid.

When will Anet realize that not it's hard to support two giant breasts on skinny legs in high heels?

The person *cough*MALE*cough who developed female elementalist armor needs to tie 5-pound weights around his chest and run around on his toes.

Dervish Gnome · Aug 17, 2007, 03:27 AM // 03:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLordOfBlah

What I'm hearing from you is both:

I'm not saying 'its too revealing so change all the armor', i just want variety...

and then

But there are 10 year olds playing the game :0

What are you getting at? do you think its too revealing or not? because currently theres nothing visually inappropriate, otherwise this game wouldnt be rated T.

TheLordOfBlah,

I'm saying that the clothing is too revealing, but to just introduce some alternatives...not get rid of whatever is already created because I know that some players love the armor. After stating this I then thought about how many pre-teens play the game and how I wouldn't want my young cousins exposed to the elementalist upper shaker no matter if it is pixel (because it is rather close to what the real thing looks like). I really don't want to hear my cousins asking about "Do they really look like that?"

Anyways, like I have said before I would like to see new options in the armor department even it is strictly Elementalist who get the armor.

Sli Ander · Aug 17, 2007, 03:32 AM // 03:32

I will (almost) always sign for more armor variety, though lately I've been having to put the disclaimer "maybe in GW2" on most of my posts.
For instance I prefer the long coat style of collectors armor, but preferred the versatility of the other armors. I compromised and got Druids, but it wouldn't have hurt to have some other armor skins to choose from. I don't have Nightfall, but I've looked at all the armor pictures and must say they did quite a fine job on some of those designs.

Besides, the more variety they get in armor choices the less chance your character has of looking like a clone of someone elses. Even if its something as simple as "for every 2 skimpy outfits(or choose a style) we'll give 1 of X type as well" it would be nice(kinda even out the choices a bit more)

But that's just my two cents

Dervish Gnome · Aug 17, 2007, 03:38 AM // 03:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taurucis

I have never met anyone before who shares the views on female armor. You're the first, Dervish Gnome.

When will Anet realize that it's hard to support two giant breasts on skinny legs in high heels?

The person *cough*MALE*cough who developed female elementalist armor needs to tie 5-pound weights around his chest and run around on his toes.

Taurucis,

That is entirely funny and so true. I'm glad to see that a handful of players seem to agree with me or at least acknowlege that new armor would be a good idea.

Graphik Desine · Aug 17, 2007, 03:46 AM // 03:46

lolol. see, this is why i made my main characters male...to prevent running into any of these types of problems, especially the creepy cyber whispers :P

it might be too late for you now, gnome, but a good way to see if the characters you create are going to have revealing or even really NEAT armor---is by looking on the armor pages of fansites first, even though it may be a spoiler, it'll add a few years to all of our life exectancies XD

that's what i did with all my chars after i made my female ele...learned from mistakes ._.

grottoftl · Aug 17, 2007, 03:50 AM // 03:50

you people who are offended by the armor looks should really let this go and lighten up. i am a girl and this doesnt really bother me because its just a game quit bringing real life issues into games. crusade your issues to where it is appropriate like the adult entertainment industry or modeling industry where those involve real people dressing in revealing clothing, whatever. not in the gaming world, a PIXELATED COMPUTER GENERATED world where the characters are not real. seriously stop bringing your issues into games or you will become just like Jack Thompson.

DreamRunner · Aug 17, 2007, 04:03 AM // 04:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dervish Gnome

TheLordOfBlah,

I'm saying that the clothing is too revealing, but to just introduce some alternatives...not get rid of whatever is already created because I know that some players love the armor. After stating this I then thought about how many pre-teens play the game and how I wouldn't want my young cousins exposed to the elementalist upper shaker no matter if it is pixel (because it is rather close to what the real thing looks like). I really don't want to hear my cousins asking about "Do they really look like that?"

Anyways, like I have said before I would like to see new options in the armor department even it is strictly Elementalist who get the armor.

They are alternatives, a lot in fact that was mentioned previously. You are just overreacting, its true. And from your posts, you should stop with the sexist comments that you have made previously. Same with Fighterdoken with his\her post, that you Dervish Gnome also had agree with.

But these cousins of yours, I do wonder if you will take them to a fashion show where largely, a lot of skin is shown, yet they are at the HEIGHT of the female fashion. Strange, yes? And yet where would people get idea's from to set up there characters for clothing... from a general clothes store? Or from people who are in fashion business and are setting the tends for a lot of girls and women.

But Anet has put T for teens, its the retails fault on how the game is being sold.

Curse You · Aug 17, 2007, 04:05 AM // 04:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fighterdoken

What i really don't understand is how they can expect us to think that a gladiator set of armor on a female can provide the same armor rating that a full plate obsidian armor. I mean, with all that meat exposed, you would think that they are a little easier to hit (no pun intended).
(and if they come with the "it's magic armor", well, a whole full plate set of that same magic armor should be available providing even higher AC)

Well, with the implementation of all armours being inscribed, yes, it is magic that gives you the armor. Seriously, for all we know Platemail is made of Tin.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Seraphim

I'm not saying there should not be more conservative options for you, just simply the characteristics of the Norn race suggest that they would be rather "revealing" in their clothing choice.

QFT

Look at the male norn. None of them wear shirts. Would you prefer that Jora do the same?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sugr

Again it's not armor we get to pick it's Hero Armor that is already chosen. Yes chars get tp pic their own but when no choice there again a line needs to be set. Why keep going back to old armor? We are talking about a game to come not previous.

Use Koss and Goren.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dervish Gnome

If the game is indeed for 18+ then please explain to me why I see so many 13 and under players? Oh yes...because Guild Wars is T for teens meaning 13 and older...and yet pre-teens get ahold of the game too. So no...the game is not +18. So having standards and wishing to be more than eye candy has automatically labeled this thread as a bible group seeking comfort in Guild Wars? I know that's not exactly what you typed, but it seems to link very well.

It's their parents' fault for permitting them to play a game intended for more mature people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dervish Gnome

Clearly the box is set for "T", but I was able to purchase Fable set at "M" at the age of 16 so in conclusion I would have to say that Wal*Mart or any other game sellers are going to make a sell and sometimes not check for ID (or even check the box for rating). So who is to say that an older looking pre-teen wouldn't be able to purchase the latest Guild Wars game using their birthday money or christmas cash?

It's not the store's fault, it's the Parents'. Were I a lawyer, I would work with video game cases just so I could tell that to parents.

draxynnic · Aug 17, 2007, 04:11 AM // 04:11

I just came over from... probably the same thread Taurucis came from in the GWEN forum... and as another heterosexual male, I'm going to come in on the side of choice here. There's nothing inherently wrong with having the skimpy outfits - it's having no choice but the skimpy outfits that's the problem. At the moment, the worst offenders seem to be Jora and the female Nightfall elementalists (one joke I've made is the fake advertising slogan "ArenaNet: Making female elementalists sluttier since 2005!") - the former because as yet we don't know of any alternatives, and the latter because a player of a female elementalist who only has Nightfall has no alternatives to the skimpy outfits until they reach the Bone Palace - which is well into the second half of the storyline! (And the suggestion of getting FoW armour is even worse, given the time sink that getting even one full set of FoW represents - but that's going off on a tangent, given that there are plenty of acceptable outfits that can be acquired more easily). Oh, yeah, and Paragons, where the only options that don't have an "aim sword here" gap around the naval are the male Vabbian and Elonian sets.

Besides, I actually find women in proper clothing to be more attractive - maybe because there's more mystery to it, or maybe because it's showing that they have the self-respect to know they don't have to have the stripper look to be attractive.

On children and the like - I think the issue here isn't one about them playing, but about them being around while you're playing. Sure, the game is aimed at a higher age group, but some people of the age group that it is aimed at may want to be able to play without having to lock themselves away from any kids that may be around (or anyone else they'd feel ashamed at having see scantily-dressed characters on the screen) even if that means they have to hench it all the time.

To summarise: We're not saying that other players should be denied the choice to have characters in scanty outfits - just that everyone should also have the choice to have characters that are properly dressed as well - and that this should be the case from the first time they upgrade from starter armour.

PS:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curse You

Use Koss and Goren

That's exactly what I said I'd do in another thread - when I get the option. Heck, normally when I'm on my own, I use the warrior hench - Devona does the job well enough, and Lukas and the warrior Seaguard even better, while some of the other professions require more customisation and are hence better uses for the three hero slots.

However, I suspect that like every hero in Nightfall except the Olias, Zenmai, Razah and the Acolytes, there will be quests and missions where you're forced to bring Jora.

B E A S T · Aug 17, 2007, 04:22 AM // 04:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by grottoftl

you people who are offended by the armor looks should really let this go and lighten up. i am a girl and this doesnt really bother me because its just a game quit bringing real life issues into games. crusade your issues to where it is appropriate like the adult entertainment industry or modeling industry where those involve real people dressing in revealing clothing, whatever. not in the gaming world, a PIXELATED COMPUTER GENERATED world where the characters are not real. seriously stop bringing your issues into games or you will become just like Jack Thompson.

THANK YOU! Honestly, correct me if I am wrong OP, but I think this thread is about seeking attention. Female Ele armor is just the same as or more modest then any bikini you see during the summer. Not just men like those bikinis, women like them too [thats why they where them]. Female gamers that I know dont have a problem with this at all, they see it as a game and get whatever armor looks good to them.

OP, if you are offended by playing Guild Wars when someone walks into the room because of some female armor, ask yourself this. Would they be embarresed if they went to the swimming pool or walked on the beach?

grottoftl · Aug 17, 2007, 04:32 AM // 04:32

one more thing I like to add when you call the armor designs disgusting you are insulting the art team and their work. they spent so much time and effort trying to come up with various designs and you just spit on them. criticism is good and all but you are critizing them wrongfully. ever heard artists like to express themselves in their work? oh and fun fact back in old roman times, roman soldiers only equipped themselves with a shield, weapon and a helmet they had no body armor. they fought in the battlefield completely nude and having less armor showed a sign of bravery and helped them to better manuver

whats wrong with the bare human body? why should we feel ashame of it? the human body is beautiful and you people live in a society with morales too high. back in the ancient days everyone back then walked around partially or fully nude and no one was bothered it

Curse You · Aug 17, 2007, 04:33 AM // 04:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

On children and the like - I think the issue here isn't one about them playing, but about them being around while you're playing. Sure, the game is aimed at a higher age group, but some people of the age group that it is aimed at may want to be able to play without having to lock themselves away from any kids that may be around (or anyone else they'd feel ashamed at having see scantily-dressed characters on the screen) even if that means they have to hench it all the time.

Usually, I have my view as far away as possible so I can see as much of the battlefield as possible. I can hardly tell what anyone is wearing. Since you can only really see heroes in Explorable areas, I don't see a problem.

If you're concerned about people walking in, then I don't see why your not concerned about little children walking in while their dad is browsing Playboy.com or something.